Thrasymachus bursts onto the scene “hunched up like a wild beast,” roaring that justice is nothing more than “the advantage of the stronger.” What follows is a masterclass in Platonic drama and pedagogy—complete with forced feedings, blushing, and precision battles over definitions—as Socrates methodically unravels the sophist’s position.

And THANK YOU again to the Classic Learning Test for sponsoring this episode.

Join our slow read-along of Plato’s Republic!

We begin reading this life-changing book on October 6. Check out the full reading schedule here.

Subscribe now

To support our mission and get all our resources, become a paid book club member. In addition to the weekly podcast, you’ll get:

• Live book club discussions with Dcn. Garlick & guest scholars (monthly)

• In-depth reading guides and essays to lead you through the great books

• Access to our incredible community of readers

• The full archive of members-only content (guides, essays, and podcasts)

Dr. McBrayer and Dcn. Garlick explore why this confrontation matters so much. They compare Thrasymachus to the even more ferocious Callicles of the Gorgias (which Dr. McBrayer also discussed with Dcn. Garlick on Ascend) and discuss whether Socrates truly refutes him or merely “out-sophists the sophist.” They also go back and forth on the famous shepherd-and-sheep analogy, the arts-versus-money-making distinction, and the early hints of the philosopher-king and city-soul analogy.

Along the way they surface deeper questions that haunt the rest of the dialogue: Is justice a real thing or merely a name the powerful give to their own advantage? Why does Plato bookend the Republic with religious myths? And how much of Book One is a deliberate deconstruction meant to clear the ground for Glaucon’s more serious challenge in Book Two?

Whether you’re a first-time reader still finding your footing or a returning student who wants to wrestle with one of the most famous attacks on justice in the Western tradition, this conversation models how to read Plato slowly, dramatically, and in good company. Tune in for sharp analysis, unexpected humor, and a clear sense of why Thrasymachus still feels so familiar—and so dangerous—today.

Be sure to check out our entire reading schedule, so you can be sure to read alongside us.

A good path is before us.

Let’s take it and ascend.

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

We are joined by two excellent guides: Dr. Frank Grabowski, Dean of Faculty at Holy Family Classical School, and Mr. Thomas Lackey, independent scholar and a longtime friend of the podcast. And THANK YOU again to the Classic Learning Test for sponsoring this episode.

Today, we ask what is owed and to whom.

Join our slow read-along of Plato’s Republic!

We begin reading this life-changing book on October 6. Check out the full reading schedule here.

Subscribe now

To support our mission and get all our resources, become a paid book club member. In addition to the weekly podcast, you’ll get:

• Live book club discussions with Dcn. Garlick & guest scholars (monthly)

• In-depth reading guides and essays to lead you through the great books

• Access to our incredible community of readers

• The full archive of members-only content (guides, essays, and podcasts)

“Shall I be your heir?” Polemarchus takes his father’s definition and attempts to provide a standard: Friends owe friends some good and nothing bad. Notice that the concepts of friendship and the good enter the Republic. Polemarchus’ name means war-lord, and the opening of the Republic made him look like political force, maybe even tyranny (commanding Socrates to wait). In the argument, however, he shows himself to be a good-faith interlocutor. Lackey notes that the Piraeus will later be the center of the revolt against the Thirty Tyrants (the puppet government set up by Sparta over Athens after the Peloponnesian War), and that Polemarchus will die by drinking hemlock (the same death Athens will later condemn Socrates to). The line about being “an heir” applies more directly to Cephalus, but in a way could apply to Socrates as well—Polemarchus is an heir to Socrates, someone who loves wisdom and then dies by drinking hemlock.

Further Resources to Help You Read the Republic:

1. GUIDE: 12 Questions on Book One of Plato’s Republic

2. Republic Bk 1: Intro, Prologue & Cephalus with Dr. Alex Priou (327a-331d)

3. How to Read Plato

4. Reading schedule, podcast calendar, and more!

Justice means to benefit friends and harm enemies. That is the Greek cultural default observed in the Oresteia and in Oedipus at Colonus. Socrates then asks: what is the art for? The man useful for keeping a deposit is also useful for stealing it. Then the harder question: Is a friend the man who seems good, or the man who is good? The one who decides can be wrong. The last turn is on the word harm. A first reader may hear a pacifist. Horses and dogs that have been harmed become worse in the virtue of horses and of dogs—but the just man cannot make a man more unjust. After they agree not to harm anyone, they call themselves partners in battle—a notable juxtaposition. The conversation is interrupted before Polemarchus can fully work through his aporia, his bewilderment.

Be sure to check out our entire reading schedule, so you can be sure to read alongside us.

A good path is before us.

Let’s take it and ascend.

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

And we have an excellent guide and mentor to walk us through the opening of Plato’s Republic and the dialogue with Cephalus in Book One (327a-331d), Dr. Alex Priou who currently serves as a professor of political philosophy at the University of Austin.

Today we start something life-changing.

Join our slow read-along of Plato’s Republic!

We begin reading this life-changing book on October 6. Check out the full reading schedule here.

Subscribe now

To support our mission and get all our resources, become a paid book club member. In addition to the weekly podcast, you’ll get:

• Live book club discussions with Dcn. Garlick & guest scholars (monthly)

• In-depth reading guides and essays to lead you through the great books

• Access to our incredible community of readers

• The full archive of members-only content (guides, essays, and podcasts)

Plato is philosophy. To summarize a famous line, all of Western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato, and Plato’s Republic is his masterwork. He does not offer you a sterile, intellectual idea that is neat to contemplate—he makes claims on your soul. For Plato, philosophy is transformative. The goal of the pursuit of wisdom is to have a good soul, a beautiful soul.

Further Resources to Help You Read the Republic:

1. GUIDE: 12 Questions on Book One of Plato’s Republic

2. How to Read Plato

3. Reading schedule, podcast calendar, and more!

“I went down to the Piraeus.” The famous opening line gives you much to contemplate, and Dr. Alex Priou is a wonderful guide. We have the verb of descent, which will be important to the entire text, and we have the Piraeus, the port of Athens, which is hosting a new festival to a new goddess. Moreover, Socrates narrates the entire Republic to an unnamed listener who never interrupts… but this allows Socrates to give commentary on the argument he otherwise could not. Dr. Priou shows us how the prologue to the Republic is simple but rich with meaning—a great introduction to how Plato teaches.

In the house of Cephalus, age, wealth, and the old myths give the first account of justice. Asked the greatest good of his money, the old metic does not speak of friends or food. He speaks of the myths he laughed at when he was young, and of the peace of facing them without unpaid debts. Justice, for him, is telling the truth and giving what one owes. Socrates asks whether you return a borrowed weapon to a man who has gone mad. Cephalus cannot defend the rule he has lived by. He laughs, leaves the argument to his son, and goes back to the sacrifices. Cephalus leaves, but his conversation will haunt the entire Republic—as the text begins with a descent and religious myth and will end with an ascent and a religious myth.

Be sure to check out our entire reading schedule, so you can be sure to read alongside us.

Also, thank you to the CLASSIC LEARNING TEST for sponsoring our first month of Plato’s Republic. They are a really excellent group of people trying to change the landscape of education in America. Go check them out.

A good path is before us.

Let’s take it and ascend.

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

Most people want a lecture, because it is easier. But Plato makes you work for the truth. He hides it in drama, irony, bewilderment, and love. The story is part of the teaching. The setting, the speakers, and even your own confusion are a philosophic lesson.

Next week we begin Plato’s masterpiece, the Republic. Plato is philosophy. Read this book well, and you have a guidepost for the entire Western tradition. The Republic is worth the work. It will change your life.

So let’s learn to read Plato well.

Join our slow read-along of Plato’s Republic!

We begin reading this life-changing book on October 6. Check out the full reading schedule here.

Subscribe now

To support our mission and get all our resources, become a paid book club member. In addition to the weekly podcast, you’ll get:

• Live book club discussions with Dcn. Garlick & guest scholars (monthly)

• In-depth reading guides and essays to lead you through the great books

• Access to our incredible community of readers

• The full archive of members-only content (guides, essays, and podcasts)

Questions to Read Plato Well

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are preparing to read Plato’s Republic (we start next week!). Before turning to that long and demanding text, we ask a simple question: how do you read Plato well?

Plato does not write treatises or lectures. He writes dialogues, and the setting, the characters, the irony, and even the moments of confusion (aporia!) are part of the teaching. The podcast takes up the questions that help a first-time reader get started on the right foot. Overall, however, we do not read Plato to “be smart” or brag we’ve read Plato. We read Plato to have a beautiful soul. We take him seriously as a teacher who can help us pursue the true, good, and beautiful.

Here is a list of the major questions that are discussed on the podcast today:

1. Why read Plato?

2. Why is the drama important?

3. Are the dialogues historical transcripts?

4. What is the Socratic method?

5. What is Socratic irony?

6. What is the art of dialectic?

7. What is aporia?

8. What is eros?

9. What is pleonexia?

10. What are the parts of the soul?

Again, we read Plato to better understand the good life and to have a good, healthy soul.

A Few More Resources

Be sure to check out the MASTER CALENDAR for our reading schedule for Plato’s Republic. Also, if you’re interested in a deeper dive into eros, see "Rediscovering Holy Eros” (one of the most popular articles on Ascend). Moreover, you can read more about pleonexia and its dangers at “The Greatest Threat to Your Freedom is You.” Last week, to prep for the Republic, we published “How to Read Plato’s Republic like C.S. Lewis.” Finally, regarding Socratic irony, read “How a Man Pretending to be Drunk Helps You Read Plato.”

Next week we start Plato’s Republic!

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we end Short Story September with “Bartleby, the Scrivener: A Story of Wall Street” by Melville - a seemingly simple tale about men in a law office that becomes a puzzling, existential tale. Dcn. Garlick is joined by two excellent guests: Mr. Joey Bremer, a teacher at Holy Family Classical School and an iconographer studying at the King’s Foundation School of Traditional Arts in London, and “Montana” of Montana Classical College, an anonymous scholar who runs an X account that shares incredible insights on Melville’s Moby Dick.

Overall, “Bartleby, the Scrivener” is a perplexing, existential tale that tends to quietly unsettle you by revealing the realities of modern life.

An Existential Tale Worth Reading

This episode of Ascend takes up Herman Melville’s “Bartleby the Scrivener: A Story of Wall Street,” a quiet, unsettling tale whose central figure answers nearly every request with the same spare formula: “I would prefer not to.” The conversation lingers on the contrast between that stubborn preference and the narrator’s own softness—an elderly lawyer who prizes the easiest way of life, cannot quite govern his office, and keeps mistaking indecision for charity. Names, nicknames, dull eyes, and the cramped windows that look onto other walls all become clues: who in this world still possesses a will, and who has already been reduced to a role?

Listeners are invited to sit with the story’s larger questions rather than resolve them. What does the monotonous labor of copying do to a man? How does a commercial, conventional life flatten thumos and leave even well-meaning people lukewarm? Why does Bartleby’s refusal feel at once more human and more deathly than the quirks of his co-workers? Drawing on the textures of Moby-Dick and the aporetic spirit of Plato, the discussion treats the tale as a puzzle that rewards patient attention—an invitation to notice what modernity may have done to the soul, and to return to the text itself with sharper eyes.

Further Resources on the Great Books

Recently here on the Ascend Book Club, we’ve been publishing more resources to help you read the great books. Here are a few things published recently:

1. Plato’s Apology with Fr. Justin Brophy, OP

2. 30 Question Guide to Plato’s Apology

3. How a Man Pretending to be Drunk Helps You Read Plato

Next week on the podcast, we’ll give an introduction on how to read Plato well and then the week after we start our slow, intentional read of Plato’s Republic.

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

Ascend: The Great Books Podcast has partnered with “The Ascent” here on Substack to transform it into the new Ascend Book Club to offer you the most comprehensive online book club focused on reading the great books and living a beautiful, virtuous life.

You’ll receive the same great content as before but with much more—which now includes:

1. Weekly podcast and videos on the great books

2. Weekly articles on the great books

3. In-depth, detailed pdf guides on the great books

4. A monthly LIVE Q&A for supporters

We are also publishing years of articles, guides, videos, and other resources to the new site and organizing them by work and author so they are easy to find—tons of resources on Homer, Hesiod, the Greek plays, Plato, Dante, and more. You could start reading many great books today with the Ascend library.

Check out our new website, the Ascend Book Club, and join us today!

Our next big read is Plato’s Republic this October, check out How to Read Plato’s Republic with Ascend for everything you need to know.

Gaiman’s “Chivalry” with H.E. Eduard Habsburg

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and His Excellency Eduard Habsburg, Archduke of Austria and former Hungarian ambassador to the Holy See, discuss Neil Gaiman’s short story “Chivalry.”

Before they turn to the text, Eduard speaks with warmth and candor about his family’s eight centuries of Catholic identity, the vocation of family in an atomized age, his decade in Rome, and an unexpected love of stories that runs from screenplays and Ghibli films to the understated magic of Gaiman.

What follows is a close, affectionate reading of a story in which the Holy Grail turns up in an Oxfam shop, Sir Galahad knocks on a widow’s door for tea, and the most English understatement imaginable meets Arthurian quest. Together they trace Mrs. Whitaker’s loneliness and ritual, the knight’s unironic goodness, Marie’s transformation, the slugs in the garden, the three gifts of youth and immortality, and the moment an old woman quietly refuses what does not belong to her life.

Eduard reads the tale as homage to Englishness and as a call to accept the adventure when it arrives, while Deacon Garlick asks whether that same ordinariness can also flatten what ought to remain extraordinary. It is a warm conversation on the charming short story, “Chivalry.”

Reading Schedule

We are currently finishing SHORT STORY SEPTEMBER! Next week, we will discuss “Bartleby, the Scrivener” by Melville, the author of Moby Dick, with two excellent guests. Read it this week and join the conversation!

We’ll then have an introduction to Plato’s Republic on 9.29.26 and launch into Plato’s Republic on 10.6.26. Check out How to Read the Republic with Ascend for everything you need to know.

You can read the great books with the Ascend Book Club!

Join us.

Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Garlick is joined by the always wonderful Alberto Fernandez to discuss "Red Shadows," a salvage tale of Solomon Kane by Robert E. Howard.

Check out our website for our reading schedule, articles, written guides, and more.

Dcn. Garlick and Alberto discuss Robert E. Howard’s 1928 Solomon Kane tale “Red Shadows,” a pulp adventure chosen as a lively Short Story September “palette cleanser” after heavier classical reading. Howard (1906–1936), the Texas-born creator of Conan the Barbarian, produced hundreds of stories in a short life. Alberto first encountered him through the 1960s–70s Lancer paperbacks with Frank Frazetta covers. Kane, Howard’s only recurring explicitly Christian series character, is described as a grim Puritan-Cavalier mix with pagan and philosophical streaks—“God’s angry swordsman”—a remorseless wandering avenger who rights wrongs he encounters by chance.

The story opens in the French countryside when Kane finds a dying young Catholic woman assaulted by bandits led by Le Loup (“the Wolf”). The stranger’s death prompts Kane’s vow that “Men shall die for this,” launching a relentless pursuit that takes him from France across Europe to the West African jungle.

There the narrative juxtaposes Kane’s grim, driven sense of justice (he sees himself as a “vessel of wrath”) against Le Loup’s cynical evil, tribal politics, the witch-doctor N’Longa, voodoo, jungle drums, and “blood memory.” Unlike the mirthful, vitalistic Conan, Kane is cold and mysterious even to himself. The climax features a duel framed as cosmic justice versus injustice, followed by a second, primal coda in which a gorilla avenges his mate—showing that nature itself can enact justice and that Kane often needs allies to complete vengeance.

Alberto highlights Howard’s youthful ambition (he wrote the story at 21), his debt to adventure writers like Edgar Rice Burroughs and H. Rider Haggard, and the way Africa becomes a recurring, almost inescapable landscape in later Kane tales. He recommends the Del Rey edition and especially the later novella “Wings in the Night” as Howard’s finest Kane story. Both hosts note the stories’ value as high-energy, well-crafted adventure that can later be shared with sons, and they close by pointing listeners toward the next Short Story September episode on Neil Gaiman’s “Chivalry.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Robert E. Howard and Solomon Kane

02:13 Howard's Background and Literary Influence

04:37 The Character of Solomon Kane and His Morality

08:36 Howard's Philosophy and Moral Duality

11:02 Why Red Shadows Was Chosen for Discussion

14:48 Beginning of the Story: France and the Dying Girl

16:52 Stranger Motif and the Western Influence

19:10 Cain's Vengeance and Inner Drive

22:50 Primal Justice and the African Setting

26:53 Howard's Use of Africa and Its Significance

32:52 Howard's Publishing Journey and African Themes

36:07 The Role of Ilonga and African Characters

43:49 Eternal Forces: Justice and Injustice

45:58 The Ending: Gorilla and Primal Justice

50:49 Howard's Final Warning and Blood Memory

54:41 Recommended Follow-up Stories and Howard's Legacy

Keywords

Solomon Kane Red Shadows, Robert E. Howard Solomon Kane, Ascend Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick, Alberto Fernandez, Weird Tales 1928, pulp fiction, sword and sorcery, God’s angry swordsman, Conan the Barbarian comparison, Tower of the Elephant, Le Loup the Wolf, N’Longa witch doctor, G’loka the Gorilla Slayer, Short Story September, Del Rey Solomon Kane, Wings in the Night, Moon of Skulls, Hills of the Dead, Puritan avenger, vengeance for a stranger, West Africa jungle, blood memory, jungle drums, Howard pulp adventure, 16th century historical fantasy, Christian hero pulp fiction, Frank Frazetta, Centaur Press Solomon Kane, Lancer paperbacks, Argosy rejection, eighty dollars Weird Tales, grim Puritan Cavalier, vessel of wrath, justice versus injustice.

NEXT WEEK we discuss Neil Gaiman's "Chivalry" with His Excellency Eduard Habsburg, the Archduke of Austria.

Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule, articles, and a whole host of written guides.

Asbury Fox, the failed New York writer who returns home to his mother’s dairy farm convinced he is dying a tragic, Kafka-esque death, meets a rural doctor, two farmhands who refuse to share his resentment, and a deaf, one-eyed priest from Purrgatory who simply walks him through the Baltimore Catechism. What begins as another Southern Gothic confrontation with pride becomes something rarer in O’Connor: a dark comedy in which the protagonist desires of a romantic death are met with an enduring chill.

Dr. Boyne and Dcn. Garlick draw out the story’s autobiographical shadows, its critique of performative liberalism and abstract love of humanity, and the way O’Connor uses both the Jesuit in New York and the homely Father Finn to insist that meaning—and grace—cannot be manufactured from the self. The conversation lingers on the water-stain dove that descends as ice rather than fire, the question of whether the tale is comic or merely purgatorial, and what it means for those of us who prize the Great Books that education, by itself, is never enough.

Listeners who have been scarred by “The Lame Shall Enter First” will find this one far easier to finish—and far more unsettling in its quiet demand that we keep living.

Chapters

00:05 — Podcast intro and the reading plan for Short Story September

01:01 — Introducing Enduring Chill and Dr. Joseph Boyne

03:21 — Why Dr. Boyne picked the story

05:00 — Flannery O’Connor and the Southern Gothic tradition

12:55 — The grotesque, violence, and grace in O’Connor

20:32 — Asbury returns home and the education theme

30:30 — Asbury’s desire for a meaningful death and the Jesuit in New York

41:42 — Dr. Block and Asbury’s confrontation with illness

50:00 — The dairy farm, the black workers, and failed communion

57:13 — Asking for a priest and the dream sequence

70:29 — Father Finn arrives and subverts Asbury’s expectations

80:31 — Randall and Morgan return

85:34 — Dr. Block diagnoses the illness correctly

87:40 — Final scene: the Holy Ghost in ice and the enduring chill

96:23 — Closing reflections on O’Connor and the story’s meaning

Keywords

Flannery O’Connor The Enduring Chill short story analysis, Ascend the Great Books Podcast Short Story September episode with Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Joseph Boyne of Tulsa Community College, Southern Gothic literature, Catholic short stories, Christ-haunted South, Asbury Fox character study, Jesuit priest Ignatius Vogle, Father Finn from Purgatory, Baltimore Catechism, Holy Spirit as ice instead of fire, undulant fever raw milk irony, performative liberalism and racial condescension, education versus practical wisdom, grotesque as medium of grace, O’Connor comedy versus tragedy, Good Country People comparison, lupus and autobiographical elements, Great Books education critique, upcoming Plato Republic series, Robert E. Howard Red Shadows Solomon Kane, Neil Gaiman Chivalry with Archduke Eduard Habsburg, Herman Melville Bartleby the Scrivener.

10 Question Written Guide on Plato's Ion

Visit our website for more information!

Plato’s Ion opens with a victorious rhapsode who claims to speak more beautifully about Homer than any other human being. Socrates grants the premise that a true rhapsode must not merely recite but interpret the poet’s thought to his hearers—and then tests whether that excellence is a techne, a teachable art that should apply across all poets who treat the same subjects.

Ion fails the test. He is “asleep” except when Homer is mentioned. Socrates therefore offers another account: poets and rhapsodes work not by craft but by divine mania. The Muse is a lodestone, and poet, reciter, and audience form a chain of possession. Ion recognizes himself at once. On stage he is outside himself, and he can move twenty thousand hearers to tears and terror (with a subtle nod in the dialogue about the desire to make money...).

The dialogue then presses the distinction between speaking beautifully and speaking correctly. On charioteering, medicine, and the other arts present in Homer, the expert—not the rhapsode—speaks rightly. Unwilling to admit he has no art at all, Ion seizes the last remaining claim and declares himself the best general. The identification is absurd, and the conversation nearly collapses. Socrates leaves him a choice: to be called unjust, or divine. Ion takes the latter. Skill and inspiration remain unreconciled. What the short work has done is place poetry, possession, and the education of the city on the table—and prepare the larger judgment of the poets that the Republic will make.

Chapters

00:00 - Welcome to Ascend and overview of the episode's purpose

01:05 - Introducing Ion and the returning and first-time guests

02:29 - Erik Rostad explains Book of Titans and his lifelong reading project

06:28 - First reactions to Ion and its perplexing character

07:11 - Preliminary framing: subtitle, translation, and why the dialogue matters

10:10 - Ion's claim to be the finest speaker on Homer

11:44 - What techne means in this dialogue

20:00 - Does Ion really claim knowledge, or only beautiful performance?

23:50 - Ion's claim that no one else speaks more finely on Homer

28:37 - The question of poetry as a better educator than philosophy

31:03 - Ion admits he dozes off when other poets are discussed

38:45 - The magnet metaphor and the chain of divine influence

44:32 - Is divine inspiration irrational, or can it be a real source of truth?

55:31 - A third sense of possession: skill, demonization, and being subsumed into beauty

60:15 - Ion says he watches the crowd and adjusts for money and effect

62:49 - Does Ion have a real art, or is he just managing audience response?

70:29 - The charioteer, the physician, and whether Socrates is being fair

72:26 - Does philosophy itself become a narrow specialty in the same way?

76:03 - Why actors may be excellent performers but poor explainers of their craft

78:10 - Socrates as a guide toward self-recognition of Ion's actual techne

87:25 - Plato as storyteller and the philosopher's need for a better story

90:20 - Storytelling, parables, and the pedagogical power of narrative

92:37 - Plato's self-reflection on his own art and craft

94:36 - The unresolved tension between inspiration and skill

99:44 - Closing thanks

Keywords

Plato’s Ion, On the Iliad, Ion of Ephesus, rhapsode, Homer, Iliad, Odyssey, technē, techne, divine inspiration, mania, theia moira, magnet metaphor, lodestone, Muse, speaking beautifully, speaking correctly, kalos, orthos, Socratic dialogue, forgotten Platonic dialogues, aporetic dialogue, poetry versus philosophy, education of the city, Republic Book 10, poets as imitators, Allan Bloom, Thomas Pangle, Roots of Political Philosophy, Debra Nails, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Thomas Lackey, Jack Drury, Erik Rostad, Book of Titans, Ascend the Great Books Podcast, rhapsodic contest, Asclepieia, Epidaurus, generalship, polymathy, Plato as dramatist.

8 Questions on Hippias Minor Study Guide

Check Ascend out on X, YouTube, Facebook, and More!

Plato’s Hippias Minor is a short, strange dialogue with a traditional subtitle that cuts straight to the point: “On the Lie.” After the boastful sophist Hippias finishes a public speech ranking Achilles the best and Odysseus the most polytropos—the man of twists and turns—Socrates is drawn into a conversation that begins with Homer and ends in one of the deepest aporias of the early dialogues.

What starts as a dispute over who is the better man, the straightforward Achilles or the wily Odysseus, quickly becomes a rigorous examination of voluntary versus involuntary wrongdoing, the nature of knowledge and power, and the unsettling claim that the man who does injustice on purpose is better than the one who does it by accident.

Deacon and the guests work through the dialogue’s sharp arguments and its surprising relevance. The conversation exposes the limits of treating virtue as mere knowledge plus power, raises the question of whether a just person might ever speak falsely for a good end, and serves as a genuine appetizer for the noble lie in the Republic.

Come listen—and discover why even Socrates, at the end, cannot agree with himself.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Hippias Minor and its Context

04:55 Setting the Scene: Hippias' Speech and Socrates' Role

09:22 Hippias' Boasts and Socrates' Irony

17:55 The Homeric Heroes: Achilles and Odysseus

25:04 Knowledge, Power, and the Art of Lying

36:15 The Distinction Between Capacity and Action

44:53 The Nature of Truth and Falsehood in Socratic Dialogue

46:43 Conclusion: What Socrates Reveals About Knowledge and Lies

02:39 Socrates' questioning of Hippias and the nature of virtue

04:55 The analogy of athletic competitions and the concept of justice

07:57 Socrates' discussion on voluntary and involuntary actions

12:05 The role of knowledge and capacity in moral actions

15:34 Hippias' understanding of justice and its relation to power

19:50 The concept of noble lies and pedagogical deception

25:04 The absence of forms and gods in the dialogue

30:14 The deeper meaning of Socratic ignorance and self-awareness

34:54 The significance of the question: Is justice knowledge or power?

39:51 Conclusion: What we learn about virtue, knowledge, and truth

Keywords

Plato’s Hippias Minor, Lesser Hippias, On the Lie, Hippias of Elis, Achilles and Odysseus, polytropos, voluntary and involuntary wrongdoing, voluntary liar, Socratic dialogue, aporetic dialogue, forgotten Platonic dialogues, noble lie, Republic, virtue is knowledge, knowledge and power, sophist, polymath, Eudicus, Embassy scene Iliad, teleology, Forms, Socratic irony, beneficial falsehood, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Dr. Brett Larson, Thomas Lackey, Ascend the Great Books Podcast, political philosophy, Allan Bloom, Roots of Political Philosophy.

Next week we discuss Plato's Ion!

We are celebrating ONE YEAR of our sister-company, The Ascent, a top 100 Substack on Christian spirituality.

Check out our WRITTEN GUIDE to the Lovers.

Plato’s Lovers is a short, strange, and easily overlooked dialogue that asks one of the most important questions in the entire Platonic corpus: What is philosophy?

Set in a grammar school where two rival older lovers—one an athlete, the other a cultured “know-it-all”—compete for the attention of younger boys discussing astronomy, the conversation quickly becomes an erotic and educational contest. Socrates enters the scene and quietly reorders the loves on display, showing that philosophy is not the accumulation of many things, that self-knowledge must come before any claim to rule, and that the true lover of the young is the one who leads their souls toward wisdom.

In this episode of Ascend, Dcn. Garlick is joined by Dr. Grabowski and Dr. Larson to unpack the dialogue’s subtle images of the soul, its playful yet serious treatment of eros, and its surprising role as an appetizer for the Republic.

The accompanying written guide offers a clear outline, preliminary questions, and dense Q&A—perfect for first-time readers, small groups, or anyone who wants to follow the argument more carefully.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Plato's 'The Lovers'

02:07 The setting and context of the dialogue

06:19 Who is the dialogue for? Audience and purpose

11:12 The erotic dimension of philosophy and education

16:10 The strangeness of the dialogue's setting

22:02 What is philosophy? The first definitions

27:36 The analogy of athletic training and measured learning

37:25 Usefulness, goodness, and self-knowledge

41:11 The political implications and the role of the philosopher

50:11 The dramatic and rhetorical aspects of the dialogue

57:32 The aporetic ending and its significance

Keywords

Plato’s Lovers, Rival Lovers, Erastai, what is philosophy, polymathy, much learning, Socratic dialogue, aporetic dialogue, forgotten Platonic dialogues, eros, erotic education, true love of the soul, tripartite soul, music and gymnastics, mousikē, gymnastikē, self-knowledge, know thyself, Socrates as third lover, Dionysius grammar school, anonymity in Plato, via negativa, aporia, preparation for the Republic, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Dr. Brett Larson, Ascend the Great Books Podcast, Platonic education, philosophy and politics, soul craft before statecraft.

Check out our 15 Q&A Written Guide to the Hipparchus - great for small groups, homeschooling, autodidacts, and more!

What begins as a simple question—“What is the love of gain?”—quickly becomes a sharp and unsettling examination of the democratic soul. With no dramatic setting and a nameless interlocutor, the dialogue feels almost like overhearing Socrates in the marketplace, pressing an ordinary Athenian citizen on whether the desire for more is always shameful, or whether the soul might rightly love higher forms of gain: nobility, honor, and even wisdom itself.

What makes the conversation especially rewarding is how Socrates deliberately chooses a shocking example—the tyrant Hipparchus—and reimagines him as a lover of wisdom who sought to educate the city. In doing so, the dialogue quietly draws a parallel between the supposed tyrant and Socrates himself, both of whom attract the youth, challenge conventional order, and are ultimately rejected by a democratic culture that cannot tolerate excellence.

Along the way, listeners encounter an early sketch of the tripartite soul, a critique of the leveling effects of egalitarianism, and an aporetic ending that leaves the interlocutor “compelled rather than persuaded.” Brief, strange, and surprisingly profound, this episode is an excellent preparation for the Republic and a compelling invitation to reconsider what the soul truly seeks.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Plato's Hipparchus and its significance

01:54 Main themes: Love of gain, democracy, and wisdom

04:03 The character of Socrates and the setting of the dialogue

06:03 Hipparchus as a figure in political myth and history

07:58 Translation choices and interpretive approaches

10:00 The dialogue's structure and lack of dramatic setting

11:56 The definition of love of gain and greed

13:54 Socrates' critique of the love of worthless things

16:06 Hipparchus as a symbol of love of wisdom and fame

18:04 The political implications of Hipparchus' love of wisdom

20:00 The role of the democratic man and the love of gain

21:49 Socrates' pedagogical method and the nature of knowledge

23:52 The significance of the tyrant example and Hipparchus' myth

26:04 The character of the interlocutor and the setting of the dialogue

28:03 The introduction of Hipparchus and its layers of meaning

30:10 The political myth of Hipparchus and its revisionist history

32:00 Hipparchus' love of wisdom and the Herms

34:08 The allegory of knowledge and the tripartite soul

35:53 The love of gain as a love of wisdom and truth

38:08 The democratic man, shame, and the pursuit of philosophy

40:00 The role of philosophers in democratic society

42:01 The character of Socrates as a gadfly and teacher

43:48 The process of being compelled towards truth

45:54 Bloom's interpretation: Socrates as a political and epistemological figure

48:00 The significance of the short dialogues for understanding Socrates

50:12 The importance of humility and piety in reading Plato

51:57 Next week's discussion: Rival Lovers and the nature of wisdom

Key words: Plato Hipparchus, love of gain, philokerdia, Socratic dialogue, political philosophy, Alan Bloom, Thomas Pangle, Roots of Political Philosophy, democratic man, egalitarianism, leveling effect, tripartite soul, thumos, nous, appetitive soul, tyrant Hipparchus, Herms, Socrates as gadfly, aporetic dialogue, compulsion versus persuasion, preparation for Plato’s Republic, philosopher-king, Great Books podcast, Ascend the Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick, Frank Grabowski, classical education, ancient philosophy, Plato short dialogues, forgotten Platonic dialogues.

What if the restlessness in your soul—the endless craving for more beauty, more fulfillment, more rest—is not a curse but a divine gift?

Reclaiming Holy Eros https://www.theascent.io/p/reclaiming-holy-eros

Women as Icons of God, Beauty-itself https://www.theascent.io/p/the-beauty-of-woman-as-an-icon-of

Porn as a Poor Expression of Eros https://www.theascent.io/p/the-poor-erotics-of-porn

Far from the pornographic or puritan distortions that dominate modern thinking, this ancient concept runs like a golden thread through Homer, Hesiod, Plato’s Symposium, the Old and New Testaments, the Church Fathers, Dante, and even Pope Benedict XVI’s Deus Caritas Est. Deacon shows how eros is the very question of the human condition—an upward call that moves the soul from lesser beauties to greater ones until it finds rest in Beauty itself.

Drawing on his own spiritual labors, the host walks listeners through Plato’s ladder of love, the marital imagery of God’s covenant with Israel, the Song of Songs, Christ’s union with the Church, and the harmony between erotic ascent and the self-giving love of agape. Along the way he recovers a lost grammar of desire that is both natural and supernaturally elevated by grace—one that produces virtue, fecundity, and genuine theosis. The result is not abstract theory but a living path: a latticework upon which your own understanding of restlessness, happiness, and the call to become more Christlike can grow.

Whether you have wrestled with the restlessness of the heart, wondered how pagan wisdom and Christian revelation speak to one another, or simply want a deeper vision of love that orders the soul toward God, this conversation offers something rare: a beautiful, coherent tradition that answers the deepest questions of what it means to be human. Listen, and begin the ascent.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Eros and its significance in Christian spirituality

01:54 Eros in Homer, Hesiod, and the primordial cosmos

07:12 Plato's Symposium and the ladder of love

15:07 Eros in the Old Testament: Marriage and divine love

20:00 Eros in the New Testament: Christ and the Church

30:06 Eros and the ascent to divine beauty

40:11 Eros, virtue, and happiness in Christian thought

50:02 Eros and grace: the divine ascent and participation in God

01:00:10 The harmony of eros and agape in Christian life

01:10:08 Practical implications: loving God and neighbor through eros

01:20:01 Conclusion: recovering holy eros as the heart of human and divine love

Keywords

Holy Eros, Christian eros, Plato Symposium ladder of love, divine beauty, eros and agape, Deus Caritas Est Pope Benedict XVI, Song of Songs, marital imagery God and Israel, Christ bridegroom Church bride, Ephesians 5, St Augustine restless heart, Gregory of Nyssa, bridal mysticism, Bernard of Clairvaux, John of the Cross, Diotima, ascent to God, theosis, pagan and Christian erotics, Homer Hesiod Aristotle eros, natural and supernatural love, virtue and beauty, Ascend Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick, reclaiming holy eros, spiritual ascent, rest in God.

Check out our LIBRARY on the great books. https://www.patreon.com/cw/greatbooks/collections

23 Raw Thoughts on the New Odyssey Movie https://www.patreon.com/greatbooks/posts/23-quick-on-164190324

SEE OUR SCHEDULE BELOW!

Fresh off a twelve-week deep dive into Homer’s epic with thousands of listeners, Deacon argues that the movie is no mere adaptation but a modern ideological rewriting that flattens Homer’s rich characters, mutes the divine, and replaces sacred myth with progressive lessons about shame, war, race, and power.

From Odysseus reduced to a guilt-racked figure who “defies the gods,” to the deliberate recasting and reframing of Helen, Menelaus, Circe, Athena, and even guest-friendship itself, Deacon contends that Nolan’s version marries cultural illiteracy with calculated compromise—and that both the film and the culture’s eager defense of it reveal far more about us than about Homer.

Yet this is more than a film review. Deacon uses the movie as a lens to examine how stories shape a civilization’s soul, why myths matter more than mere fiction, and why Christians and lovers of the Western tradition must resist the slow leftward drift of endless compromise.

SCHEDULE

July 28, 2026 - Holy Eros: An exploration of eros in Plato, the Bible, and Christian thought

August 4, 2026 - Plato's Hipparchus

August 11, 2026 - Plato's Lovers

August 18, 2026 - Plato's Hippias Minor

August 25, 2026 - Plato's Ion

September 1, 2026 - Enduring Chill by Flannery O’Connor

September 8, 2026 - Red Shadows by Robert E. Howard

September 15, 2026 - Chivalry by Neil Gaiman

CHAPTERS (Updated)

00:00 — Intro: why this review matters

01:00 — Piety toward Homer and the problem with the film

03:05 — Why the movie is not a “conservative Trojan horse”

05:05 — The danger of relativism and compromise

07:10 — Myth vs. fiction: why adaptation matters

10:10 — Odysseus as a shame-filled hero

12:50 — Menelaus, Helen, and the film’s cultural messaging

15:30 — How Nolan flattens characters and tension

18:05 — Penelope and the loss of the rooted-bed scene

21:10 — Casting, modern language, and suspension of disbelief

23:55 — Calypso and the removal of Odysseus’s moral triumph

26:25 — Athena as shame and post-traumatic projection

29:55 — Nolan’s treatment of the Trojan War

32:55 — The Lystragonians and armor/costume criticism

35:05 — The cult of Nolan vs. the cult of Homer

37:00 — Gods, superstition, and the muted divine

39:15 — The slaughter of the suitors

41:10 — Guest-friendship, Xenia, and Christian themes

43:00 — Circe, the deer, and the soul of the crew

44:55 — Pacing, emotional investment, and the bard

KEYWORDS

Christopher Nolan Odyssey movie review, Homer Odyssey film adaptation critique, Ascend the Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick, cultural illiteracy in modern cinema, myth versus fiction in storytelling, Odysseus shame and guilt, Nolan casting controversies Helen Menelaus, Circe Athena Penelope Telemachus character changes, xenia guest friendship Golden Rule, Trojan War regret in film, Defy the Gods tagline analysis, classical education and Great Books, piety toward Homer, liberalism compromise in culture, upcoming Plato Republic study, Holy Eros episode, short Platonic dialogues Hipparchus Lovers Hippias Minor Ion, Short Story September Flannery O’Connor Robert E. Howard Neil Gaiman Melville, and Western civilization sacred myths.

Pick up the AMERICAN ODYSSEY out today!

https://a.co/d/01rpYuwt

23 Observations on the new Christopher Nolan Odyssey Movie

https://www.patreon.com/greatbooks/posts/23-quick-on-164190324

In this special episode of Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Garlick welcomes back renowned Notre Dame political thinker Dr. Patrick Deneen—author of Why Liberalism Failed and Regime Change—to celebrate the release of his brand-new book, The American Odyssey: What an Ancient Story Reveals About Our Divided Souls.

Fresh off a 12-week deep dive into Homer’s epic, the conversation reveals why Odysseus is the ultimate “proto-American” hero: a restless seeker torn between the hunger for home and the irresistible call of the frontier. Deneen traces this tension from the ancient text through Dante’s damning portrayal of Odysseus as a villain of forbidden knowledge, to the Renaissance reinvention of him as the triumphant explorer who metaphorically discovers America itself.

What makes this episode unmissable is how Deneen unlocks Aristotle’s radical claim that humans are political animals precisely because we are neither beasts nor gods, the “citylessness” that turns Ithaca into a Cyclopean free-for-all, and the startling parallels between Odysseus’ refusal of immortality and Huck Finn’s decision to “go to hell.”

Pairing iconic American stories like The Wizard of Oz, Field of Dreams, and Huckleberry Finn with Homer’s timeless episodes, Deneen shows that the Western tradition isn’t locked in dusty classics—it’s alive in our movies, novels, and national character, especially as America marks its 250th anniversary. Dive in and discover how an ancient tale of departure and return still maps the divided soul of a nation that can’t stop exploring… or longing for home.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Patrick Deneen and the Book

01:54 Deneen's Return to Homer and the Odyssey

03:59 Odysseus as a Proto-American Figure

06:59 The Tension Between Flourishing and Discontent

12:07 Odysseus and the Pioneering Spirit of America

19:02 The Shift in Odysseus' Image from Medieval to Renaissance

27:01 Odysseus as a Figure of Forbidden Knowledge

34:08 The Connection Between Odysseus and Columbus

40:02 The Polis and Citylessness in Homer and Aristotle

48:07 The Return of the Polis and the Homecoming

56:06 Huckleberry Finn as an Odyssean American Hero

59:45 The Western Tradition in Popular Culture

Key words: Ascend Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick, Dr Patrick Deneen, The American Odyssey book, Homer Odyssey, Odysseus proto-American hero, Why Liberalism Failed, Regime Change, Western tradition, Aristotle Politics, man political animal, apolis citylessness, Dante Inferno Odysseus villain, Renaissance explorers, Columbus Amerigo Vespucci, American character, pioneering spirit, frontier homecoming, Calypso immortality, Huckleberry Finn, Field of Dreams, Wizard of Oz, 250th anniversary Declaration of Independence, Notre Dame political science, Homeric studies, great books podcast, Platonic dialogues, American soul, divided souls, political theory, classical literature, Americana, Odyssey episodes.

There is yelling, laughter, cursing, and general chaos--but more of Homer's truth is unearthed in the process.

Check out our ONLINE LIBRARY for resources on the great books.

Check out Dr. Justin Jackson's Substack working through the Bible.

Check out Dr. Justin Whalen at Hillsdale College.

The long-awaited homecoming unfolds with Odysseus and Penelope's emotional reunion, the famous test of the immovable olive-tree bed, and the climactic confrontation with the suitors' vengeful families. The conversation crackles with insight as the guests unpack Penelope's cunning, Odysseus' complex character, parallels to Achilles and Heracles, and the poem's meditation on fidelity, mortality, justice, and the costs of homecoming.

Dr. Jackson brings contrarian fire—challenging heroic ideals, celebrating the domestic, and wrestling openly with whether Odysseus' reckoning is justice or raw revenge—while Dr. Whalen offers sharp textual observations on themes of rootedness, temptation, and the poem's unresolved tensions.

Expect yelling, laughter, heartfelt disagreement, and the kind of raw intellectual energy that makes great books come alive.

Whether you’ve followed the whole series or are just dipping in, this capstone will leave you rethinking everything you thought you knew about the Odyssey. Stick around after the discussion for a look ahead at Plato’s Republic and more. If you love the Great Books, this is unmissable.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction: Finishing the Odyssey Journey

04:46 - Host Welcome & Episode Setup

06:27 - Guest Introductions: Dr. Justin Jackson & Dr. Benedict Whalen

07:04 - Dr. Jackson’s New Book on Reading Literature

16:28 - Diving into Book 23: Penelope Learns Odysseus Has Returned

21:07 - Penelope’s Skepticism & the Secret Signs

25:05 - The Great Rooted Bed Test & Recognition Scene

36:36 - Odysseus & Penelope Reunion, Emotional Moments

47:05 - The Final Labor & Comparison to Heracles

59:11 - Temptations: Calypso, Nausicaa & Penelope

1:11:32 - Transition to Book 24: Laertes & the Avenging Families

1:15:26 - Achilles & Agamemnon in the Underworld

1:35:02 - Reunion with Laertes & Proof Scenes

1:49:10 - Dolius, the Final Battle & Deus Ex Machina Ending

2:11:04 - Reflections on Justice, Revenge & the Poem’s Message

2:16:50 - Closing Thoughts & Upcoming Episodes

Keywords

Odyssey Books 23 and 24, Homer's Odyssey finale, Odysseus Penelope reunion, rooted bed test, immovable olive tree bed, suitors slaughter, Ithaca homecoming, Penelope cunning, Odysseus homecoming, Great Books podcast, Ascend podcast, Hillsdale College professors, Dr. Justin Jackson, Dr. Benedict Whalen, Homer teacher philosopher, Telemachus maturation, Achilles Agamemnon underworld, Laertes reunion, Poseidon penitential journey, justice vs revenge Odyssey, classical literature podcast, Western canon Odyssey analysis, father son reunion Odyssey, Penelope faithfulness, heroic fate comparison, Plato Republic preview.

Check out our LIBRARY of written guides to the Great Books.

Check out Dr. Priou's new Substack: The Close Read.

What happens in Book 22?

Odysseus stands at the threshold of his home, cries out to Apollo, and lets loose an arrow straight through the neck of Antinous (22.15). Chaos erupts in the hall as bread and meats are soaked in a swirl of bloody filth (22.21). Eurymachus attempts to broker a truce with Odysseus, but it is rejected (22.57); he then calls the suitors to arms and is slaughtered (22.73). Telemachus brings armor and weapons to his father, the swineherd, and the cowherd (22.121), but the goatherd sneaks weapons to the suitors (22.151).

On his second run, the cowherd and swineherd intercept the goatherd, tie him up, and hang him from the rafters (22.196). Athena first arrives in the guise of Mentor (22.217) and then perches like a sparrow on the rafters, assisting Odysseus with her man-destroying shield of thunder (22.250). The suitors fall into panicked madness as Odysseus and his men wheel into the slaughter, slashing left and right, with grisly screams breaking from cracked skulls and the floor awash with blood (22.311).

Odysseus spares the bard and the herald but shows no mercy to the prophet (22.327). The slaughter complete, Eurycleia summons the disloyal female servants, who help carry out the corpses and clean the gore (22.458–471). Telemachus oversees the disloyal women being slowly hanged in the courtyard—a pitiful, ghastly death (22.487)—while the goatherd is retrieved and mutilated to death by the swineherd and cowherd (22.500). Odysseus purifies his home with fire and brimstone (22.518), and the book ends with the loyal maidservants surrounding their king as he breaks down and weeps (22.528).

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast

04:40 Exploring the Odyssey: Book 22 Overview

06:58 The Role of the Gods in the Odyssey

09:55 Justice and Revenge in the Slaughter of the Suitors

12:54 Imagery of Food and Gore in Homer

14:49 The Cyclops Narrative and Guest Friendship

18:51 Antinous: The First Death and Its Implications

22:36 The Role of Recognition in Justice

25:05 Eurimachus and the Plea for Mercy

29:18 Piety and the Restoration of Order

32:53 The Political Landscape of Ithaca

33:48 Purging and the New Order in Ithaca

34:18 The Balance of Power and Leadership Lessons

35:24 Pedagogical Journeys: Odysseus and His Men

37:39 Divine Endorsement and the Purging of the Unworthy

39:35 Odysseus's Transformation: From Arrogance to Understanding

41:36 The Role of Recognition in Identity

43:08 The Consequences of Identity and Wisdom

46:29 The Tragedy of Odysseus and Penelope

48:42 Telemachus's Growth and Inexperience

53:12 Divine Justice and the Nature of the Fight

58:11 The Role of Prophecy and Piety in Justice

01:05:23 The Nature of Piety and Accountability

01:06:59 Eros and the Path to Ascent

01:09:52 Self-Reflection and the Nature of Desire

01:13:10 Justice and the Fate of the Maidservants

01:23:36 The Consequences of Disloyalty

01:30:37 Recognition and Political Rule

Discussion:

Dr. Priou and Dcn. Garlick examine the justice of the slaughter, noting that while Antinous dies without recognizing Odysseus, the goatherd Melanthius suffers one of the most gruesome tortures in Homer—strung up and mutilated in language echoing the barbaric king Echetus. They discuss the hanging of the disloyal maidservants, Telemachus’s role in their execution, and why such violence may be necessary to purge disloyalty and restore order. Key themes include the restoration of piety, the shift from a decayed oligarchic rule by the suitors to a new natural aristocracy involving loyal servants, Odysseus’ pedagogical journey, and the tension between recognition, glory, and the establishment of a stable political regime supported by fear of the gods.

Overall, the episode portrays Homer as a profound teacher on the ugly necessities of justice and political founding.

The speakers reflect on how the book repudiates certain Iliadic values like vaunting over the slain, emphasizes cleansing and purification, and sets the stage for the final books. Dr. Priou highlights Odysseus’s cunning, the limits of rhetoric, and the need to curtail eros for civilized life, while both Dr. Priou and Dcn. Garlick encourage listeners to confront uncomfortable questions about revenge, mercy, and the role of divine and human violence in re-founding a polity.

Next week our 12-week study of the Odyssey ends with Books 23-24!

NEW ARTICLE: Why Should Christians Read Homer?

Check out our COLLECTION OF WRITTEN GUIDES.

In this episode of Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and guests Dr. Frank Grabowski and Thomas Lackey dive into Books 20 and 21 of Homer’s Odyssey, where the stage is set for the long-awaited slaughter of the suitors. The portents multiply: Theoclymenus’s terrifying vision of the palace drenched in blood and gore, Athena’s divine orchestration, and Penelope’s masterful test with Odysseus’s legendary bow. Amid feasts for Apollo, disloyal servants, and growing frenzy, Odysseus the beggar masters his patience while Telemachus comes fully into his own—echoing the father-son reunion and the maturation arc that began in Book 2.

The conversation has rich insights on Homeric anthropology, the thumos (spirited), xenia’s sacred bonds, ritual symbolism, and the limits of repentance under divine justice.

Listeners will relish the similes, prophecies ignored at peril, subtle Christological resonances, and the masterful dramatic pause Homer builds before the violence erupts in Book 22. Whether you’re tracking Odysseus’s cunning, Telemachus’s growth, or the poem’s deeper moral and theological layers, this episode delivers fresh appreciation for why the Odyssey endures.

Don’t miss it—especially with Dr. Patrick Deneen joining soon to connect the epic to our own age.

Subscribe, grab the written guide, and join the journey on Patreon, YouTube, or thegreatbookspodcast.com.

Keywords: Odyssey Book 20 summary, Odyssey Book 21 analysis, Homer Odyssey Books 20 and 21, Penelope bow test, Odysseus bow contest, Theoclymenus prophecy vision, slaughter of the suitors setup, Odysseus beggar disguise, Telemachus maturation, xenia guest friendship Odyssey, divine justice in Homer, Homeric thumos anthropology, Apollo feast day Odyssey, Greek classics podcast, Great Books discussion Odyssey, Odysseus revenge portents, Penelope cunning test, Homer similes Book 20, ritual symbolism Odyssey, Christological parallels Odyssey, Ascend Great Books Podcast.

Check out our WRITTEN Q&A GUIDE TO THE ODYSSEY.

Check out Dr. Grabowski's new Substack: The Porch and the Altar.

The conversation explores iconic moments like Odysseus’s heartbreaking reunion with his loyal dog Argos, the tense first dialogue with Penelope that raises fascinating questions about what she truly knows or suspects, and the escalating violations of xenia by the suitors. Listeners will appreciate the rich analysis of loyalty as the ultimate standard, Odysseus’s hard-won maturation in temperance and piety, and striking contrasts between faithful servants like Eumaeus and disloyal figures like Melanthius.

Homer emerges here as both poet and philosopher, using these scenes to probe justice, the nature of heroism, the city at peace, and the interplay of fate and human choice.

With Athena guiding events and the tension building toward the suitors’ doom, Deacon and Dr. Grabowski illuminate how Odysseus’ trials have prepared him not just for revenge, but for restoring order.

Whether you’re new to the epic or a longtime reader, this episode offers fresh insights that make the ancient story feel urgently relevant. Don’t miss it—subscribe and join the community as the Odyssey study continues toward its dramatic climax!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Odyssey Study

04:30 The Role of Penelope and Theoclymenus

07:14 Contrasting Characters: Eumaeus and Melanthius

10:28 Odysseus' Growth and Maturation

13:11 The Loyalty of Argos

16:26 The Test of Guest Friendship

19:10 The Fate of the Suitors

22:22 The Beggar Fight and Its Implications

24:43 Odysseus' Reflection on His Journey

27:21 The Irony of Antinous

30:45 Penelope's Anticipation and the Build-Up to Reunion

33:28 Odysseus' Moral Self-Awareness

36:37 Conclusion and Themes of Justice

42:10 The Philosopher Beggar and the Blindness of the Suitors

44:49 The Nature of Law and Lawlessness

47:33 Penelope's Cleverness and the Suitors' Downfall

52:09 Telemachus' Growth and the Stability of Society

57:19 The Reunion of Odysseus and Penelope

01:01:40 The Test of Loyalty and the Nature of Guest Friendship

01:06:23 The Subtlety of Odysseus and Penelope's Intuition

01:12:19 The Significance of Names and Identity

01:19:33 The Tension of Recognition and the Test of the Suitors

Keywords: Odyssey Books 17-19, Homer Odyssey summary, Odysseus as beggar, reunion with Argos, Penelope and Odysseus dialogue, what Penelope knows, xenia guest friendship, loyalty in the Odyssey, Argos the dog, Melanthius goat herder, Eumaeus swineherd, Theoclymenus prophecy, suitors fate, Odysseus maturation, temperance and piety, Homer philosopher, city at peace, Athena disguise, beggar fight Book 18, bow of Odysseus, scar of Odysseus, Great Books Podcast, Ascend podcast Odyssey, Frank Grabowski Homer, classical education Odyssey, Western literature analysis.

Check out all our resources on the great books!

Check out Dr. Grabowski's new Substack on the great books.

The conversation explores Telemachus’s maturation and homecoming, the poignant father-son reunion in the swineherd’s hut, and the deepening bonds of loyalty with Eumaeus. Listeners will enjoy thoughtful reflections on xenia (guest-friendship), Theoclymenus the mysterious prophet, Helen’s prophetic insight, Menelaus’s gracious hospitality, and the growing threat of the suitors, all while tracking themes of thumos, divine guidance, and the slow unfolding of justice.

With warmth, humor, and insight, the trio unpacks Homer’s masterful storytelling—why Telemachus must become a threat, the nobility of the “lowly” swineherd, and the beautiful (and bittersweet) dynamics of recognition and reunion.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast

09:15 Telemachus' Journey: A Coming of Age Story

15:25 Menelaus: The Gracious Host

22:57 The Arrival of Theoclymenus: A Mysterious Prophet

30:36 Odysseus and Eumaeus: Testing Loyalty

31:05 The Swineherd's Loyalty and Laertes' Mystery

32:41 Odysseus' Questions and Eumaeus' Story

34:41 The Tragic Tale of Eumaeus

38:36 Social Status vs. Moral Character

41:47 The Unique Island and Divine Justice

43:43 Guest Friendship and Telemachus' Choices

46:25 The Reunion of Father and Son

50:29 Telemachus and Odysseus: A Complex Relationship

55:27 Testing Nobility and Virtue

01:00:25 Divine Disguises and Recognition

01:04:59 The Standard of Belief

01:11:37 The Plan Against the Suitors

01:18:58 The Nature of Justice and Retribution

Whether you’re reading the Odyssey for the first time or returning to it with fresh eyes, this episode illuminates how these ancient books continue to form souls and speak to fatherhood, virtue, and the return to order. Perfect listening for anyone journeying through the Great Books—don’t miss it!