Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and guest Dr. Gregory McBrayer dive into the fiery third part of Book One of Plato’s Republic: the showdown between Socrates and the sophist Thrasymachus.
Thrasymachus bursts onto the scene “hunched up like a wild beast,” roaring that justice is nothing more than “the advantage of the stronger.” What follows is a masterclass in Platonic drama and pedagogy—complete with forced feedings, blushing, and precision battles over definitions—as Socrates methodically unravels the sophist’s position.
And THANK YOU again to the Classic Learning Test for sponsoring this episode.
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Dr. McBrayer and Dcn. Garlick explore why this confrontation matters so much. They compare Thrasymachus to the even more ferocious Callicles of the Gorgias (which Dr. McBrayer also discussed with Dcn. Garlick on Ascend) and discuss whether Socrates truly refutes him or merely “out-sophists the sophist.” They also go back and forth on the famous shepherd-and-sheep analogy, the arts-versus-money-making distinction, and the early hints of the philosopher-king and city-soul analogy.
Along the way they surface deeper questions that haunt the rest of the dialogue: Is justice a real thing or merely a name the powerful give to their own advantage? Why does Plato bookend the Republic with religious myths? And how much of Book One is a deliberate deconstruction meant to clear the ground for Glaucon’s more serious challenge in Book Two?
More Resources on Plato’s Republic:
Whether you’re a first-time reader still finding your footing or a returning student who wants to wrestle with one of the most famous attacks on justice in the Western tradition, this conversation models how to read Plato slowly, dramatically, and in good company. Tune in for sharp analysis, unexpected humor, and a clear sense of why Thrasymachus still feels so familiar—and so dangerous—today.
Be sure to check out our entire reading schedule, so you can be sure to read alongside us.
A good path is before us.
Let’s take it and ascend.
Dcn. Harrison Garlick lives in rural Oklahoma with his wife and five children. He serves as a deacon at Holy Family Cathedral and as Chancellor & General Counsel for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa. Follow him on X at Dcn. Garlick or Ascend.
